Sania Hammad and Allison Choong at the What Girls Want Campaign Rally near the United Nations building in September 2024.
Editor’s Note: This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Following the U.S. election results, She’s the First spoke with girls in our Chapters program who live in states and areas where women’s bodies are politicized. A university student from Arizona said that men on her campus held signs that said, “Women are property.” A girl from a high school in Texas told us that boys were walking around the hallway saying, “Your body, my choice.” The use of these phrases online has also spiked dramatically.
We wanted to see what two alums of our Girl Activist Fellowship thought about the rise of sexist discourse and what girls can do to fight back. Allison Choong, 21, of Penang, Malaysia, and Sania Hammad, 19, from Kansas, U.S, are two of the five co-authors of Safiya Speaks Up!, a children’s book about safety from sexual violence—which they created during their She’s the First fellowship. The book and mentor’s guide have been available for 15 months, and in that time, more than 7,000 girls were introduced to Safiya and learned how to identify safe adults in their lives.
In this conversation, Allison and Sania talk about how they’re tackling significant issues like sex education, reproductive health, and gender-based violence at a time when women’s rights are challenged.
If you’ve ever wondered how young people can drive change, their stories and advice are a great place to start:
SHE’S THE FIRST:
As two of the five creators of Safiya Speaks Up!, how do you think educational resources like this can help combat harmful discourse?
SANIA HAMMAD:
I was born and raised in the Midwest, in Kansas, [where] I’ve also heard this response: “Oh, it’s just a joke. Oh, you’re just being sensitive. We’re just having fun.” But we need to be clear that this rhetoric is offensive; it’s not just a joke. It is destructive. I think that it perpetuates harmful stereotypes, further ingrains attitudes that undermine women’s autonomy and dignity, and sends the message that women’s bodies aren’t their own. It’s not just a joke because, for girls and women, these jokes are not just words. They’re reinforcing a culture that devalues their rights, their words, and their voices.
This is why initiatives supporting or promoting feminism and comprehensive sex education are more critical than ever, because it’s not just about teaching facts about health and relationships. It’s about challenging power dynamics and misinformation that fuels this destructive behavior and this idea that young boys can joke and just say whatever they want. We’re empowering young people, both girls and boys, to respect each other, their rights, and their choices.
We cannot allow this kind of ignorance and disrespect to shape our future. We have to foster a culture of mutual respect, education, and empowerment to ensure that every individual understands the value of consent, equality, equity, and human dignity.
ALLISON CHOONG:
I really agree with you, Sania. It makes me think: what is the midpoint between calling something a casual joke and harassment or maybe something physical? Growing up around misogynistic high school boys in Malaysia, I always heard things like, “Oh, girls are not worthy.” Or I got this a lot, “Girls are not funny,” which is so weird. It’s ingrained rhetoric: “Girls cannot _____.” Or just having men or boys want to dictate who you are or what you can do. That’s so harmful, especially for young girls growing up.
And I’m so surprised that it even happens in my university classes. I attend college in Philadelphia, and after the election, a boy in my class said that women should not be political leaders, which surprised me. And what surprised me even further was that no girl in my class was standing up for that. Unfortunately, I also did not stand up. I did not have the courage to say something about that, partly because it was the day after the election. I could not. But also because I am not American, and sometimes people will say something like, “Oh, you’re not American; it’s not affecting you.” But then, I live in this country. It will affect me either way because of the different rules and political things happening; it will happen to anyone living in this country, regardless of citizenship or documentation. But I think all these harmful rhetorics set girls up for failure because it makes them believe that this is the normal thing in the world. When they scroll on social media, they see all these words, and they see the boys in their lives saying that, and then they think that it’s true.
And that’s why I think our book, Safiya Speaks Up!, is so vital right now because although it does define your safe person in the context of safe touch, I think beyond that, it also teaches us about finding our safe communities and to empower and uplift girls to find people who will support them and also find their safe spaces. So I really appreciate initiatives like She's the First, who are doing those chats with the girls from the Chapters. At times like these, when there’s so much harm and hate going around, communities like this, even if it’s a virtual community, can really help.
And that’s why I really loved being in the Girl Activist Fellowship and the Girls Advisory Council. It helped give me this platform and a community. And it’s so global as well, so I remember being able to hear from girls from different countries about very similar things going on right now. Even before I came to America, when I was starting the fellowship, I would hear from Sania, who would tell me different things about Kansas, and I would share about Panang. The community cultivates so much discussion, respect, and learning. And that’s why it helped us create this amazing tool, Safiya Speaks Up! And that’s so important right now.
SHE’S THE FIRST:
That’s all so true. Another aspect to consider is that the book’s core teaches young kids the building blocks of consent. The basis of it is that your body should not be to be touched if you don’t want it to be. It’s aimed at girls, but the message is the same for boys, too. You’ve planted this foundation for them at a young age, hopefully before they start hearing some of this rhetoric—potentially safeguarding or preventing this next group from engaging in it. How do you feel about that?
SANIA HAMMAD:
I hope that’s true. I hope that children can implement the book’s lessons in their lives in the future, but I also hope that they can use the book presently. I know that certain types of rhetoric don’t start until you’re older, but I vividly remember certain micro-sexist—I don’t know how to explain it—moments happening at six years old, in first grade when the guys in my class wouldn’t let me join the soccer team because I was a girl and my body was different. And I hope that the girls reading Safiya Speaks Up! can also learn to speak up for themselves. I hope it’s not something they must wait to use. I hope they can use it right now to stand up for themselves and say, “No, actually, Kevin, I can do what I want.”
I hope they can just say, “I can do what I want. Having a vagina doesn’t make me not be able to do a math problem.” One of my earliest memories about stuff like this is when I was reading a book about women, and I just said, ‘I’m a feminist.’ Because I was reading one of those “Top 10 Women in Whatever” books, this boy came up to me, and he said, “You can’t be a feminist. Feminists are dirty and disgusting. If you’re a feminist, then I’m a menist.”
And I just remember being confused, and I didn’t speak up for myself. I was six years old. I didn’t know what a menist was. And I wish I could have stuck up for myself then and said, “No.” Because I think that was one of my first experiences of being called dirty and disgusting just for calling myself a feminist. And this was a 6-year-old boy; he was also in my class.
So, I hope books like ours can teach girls to stand up for themselves. If I can teach one girl that that kind of rhetoric isn’t okay, I think I will have been very satisfied with my life.
ALLISON CHOONG:
Yeah, I definitely agree. When I introduce Safiya Speaks Up! to people, I like to say it’s ages four and up. You can be any age and learn something from our book. And I think these tools right now are so needed in society. I’m thinking of media. Movie critics aside—I thought the Barbie movie was very empowering. Growing up as a girl who’s so feminine, I always got made fun of by boys for wearing pink. And I can tell that there are so many girls around me now who are getting back into dressing up more, dressing themselves because it’s okay to want to dress femininely, and it’s OK to wear bows. I’ve been wearing bows my whole life, even in high school. I know I was made fun of by boys a lot, but I can tell it’s media like the Barbie movie that encouraged girls to be more open with just being a girl again.
When you were talking Sania, you made me remember this one; I think it was a Super Bowl commercial. It’s the “Throw Like a Girl” commercial, which I thought was very empowering. That was my form of empowerment when I was younger, to know that so many of these harmful stereotypes are from perhaps the older generation. Then you compare it to young girls who, if you ask them to run like a girl, they’ll run as fast and far as they can. So I’m hopeful that this new generation of parents has the tools to help push these harmful rhetorics away and have a bright future of young boys and girls who can coexist and be powerful in their own ways.
SHE’S THE FIRST:
By creating Safiya, you’ve reached so many young kids, their parents, and their mentors to inform them about safety from violence. Do you have advice for girls who want to stand up for themselves and other girls in their communities?
SANIA HAMMAD:
The thing that I always fall back on is education. Educating yourself and others is vital to making change. Take time to learn about yourself and gender equality and reproductive rights and consent, and then take that knowledge and share it with others who either don’t have the resources or are just less willing. Speak up against the harmful rhetoric and the behaviors when you see them in class discussions, community events, hallways, and social media. Using your voice to challenge these stereotypes can promote respect for everyone’s rights, not just your own.
I could give a lot of advice, but the best advice I can give is to support and empower each other. Build a network of girls and allies who are passionate about the topic. Together, you can amplify other voices and create a stronger impact. Then, you can join and organize local efforts, lead by example, and engage in policy and advocacy. But it starts with very basic learning, teaching, and leading by example.
Sania gives a speech outside the United Nations demanding that world leaders include girls and young women in their decision-making. She and Allison were part of the What Girls Want Campaign, alongside Nobel Prize Laureate Malala Yousafzai and girls from more than 20 global girl organizations.
ALLISON CHOONG:
I agree with you: learn more about your community and trust that what you’re doing is important and makes a difference. Even if you help change one person’s life, that can be the best and most impactful thing you can ever do.
Another piece of advice is that you can absolutely take action in your community alone, but you don’t have to do it alone. I know it’s hard to find a group, but they’re out there somewhere. Because I think when you’re doing it alone, it could feel so daunting and scary.
Allison speaks at the What Girls Want Campaign Rally outside the United Nations.
But then, when you have a group of girls to fall back on—I had the five of us to create Safiya Speaks Up!—I was never scared to go at it and to help co-create this tool. And I think that really helped set me up, personally, for success in how I carried myself through that project. Another thing is—I know it’s hard—but to give yourself your own opportunities and platforms to create a change. Maybe by cold emailing policymakers or people who can make a difference. . The best things I’ve been able to do in life have been at the times where I went out of the way to find something myself: these communities, these platforms, these projects.
Because it’s so easy to sit down and say like, “Oh, I really wish I had X, Y, Z.” But then it’s another thing to be like, “Oh, I wish I had X, Y, Z, so I’m going to make X, Y, Z.” “I wish I had a children’s book that taught young girls how to speak up against bad touch.” And then, “So we made one!” So, I think those three things are the most important advice I have learned over the last few years. And it’s easier said than done, but I think it’s not impossible if you believe in yourself.
SHE’S THE FIRST:
Such powerful advice! And we’re so glad your fellowship group provided so much support!
SANIA HAMMAD:
Yes, She's the First just provides an incredible community where you will meet so many different incredible women from all over the world. Ally’s going to be a bridesmaid at my wedding [Allison laughs], and I’ve met her twice in person. So, it is incredible to be surrounded by such inspiring women. And I felt so much safer coming to New York knowing that there was an entire She's the First community ready, willing, and able to help me if needed. And even once you’re out of the program, you’re never really. I’ve met some of the most inspiring and incredible people. You realize that you’re never alone, and it really just makes you feel like you finally have a community.
ALLISON CHOONG:
And it’s so cool to see how much all of us have grown from our cohort since the fellowship because we’re all in contact on social media. Grace, Annika, and Anya, it’s so cool to see how much we all grew as girls from the fellowship. Even girls that weren’t in our specific topic of safety from violence. We all got to know them, and whenever we see something cool they’re doing, I always think, ‘Wow, I knew you had it in you. It’s so wonderful to see.’
SANIA HAMMAD:
There’s just so much love, and you don’t get that kind of support elsewhere. It makes you feel so secure and much better about speaking up for yourself to know they’re there.
SHE’S THE FIRST:
We love to hear that, and we’re honored that you’ve chosen to be a part of the She’s the First community! What, if anything, has changed for you as a result of being a Girl Activist Fellow?
ALLISON CHOONG:
I think what has changed for me is being a more confident leader. Before that, I felt like we were never taught how to lead. If you want to lead, you’re just thrust into that opportunity. But the Activist Fellowship has taught me the fundamentals of being a good listener, leader, and peer to my fellow activists. I am more aware of how I approach different topics and situations, knowing when to step up to be a leader and when to listen and learn because I think we’ll never stop learning.
SANIA HAMMAD:
I agree, Ally. The Fellowship is the reason I ran for class president at my university. I was so scared. There were plenty of times when we would present to the entire cohort, and I hated public speaking. I did not feel comfortable with what I was saying. I was very, very insecure about having my own beliefs and saying my beliefs as my own facts. It was like, “Oh, well, I think it might not be true; this is what I may think. It could be wrong.” But I think She's the First helped me solidify my ability to say, “This is my truth.” And I think that that is really what helped me be able to run for student government and be like, “This is what I’m running on. This is what I’m going to do. This is what I think; this is what I’m seeing. This is how I want to help you.”
ALLISON CHOONG:
Love you, President! (Sania laughs)
SANIA HAMMAD:
And I will go on the record saying that I think it’s the best decision I ever made because I think that it’s given me the opportunities to really understand myself and others. To understand what it personally means to me to be a girl and to be a woman and understand what I can do. I felt very helpless as a 16-year-old living in Kansas, seeing all this inequality around me. I really did. And I felt like there had to be something I could do. Obviously, I personally cannot solve sexism, but I think that She's the First gave me the tools to do what I can and feel less complicit. And I think that’s something incredible. And I really wish that every single girl could do it. I really do wish that every girl that I went to elementary school with could do this program. I really do. I wish that my sister would’ve done it.I think it’s incredibly valuable, even to just be reminded you have a voice.
ALLISON CHOONG:
Allison reads Safiya Speaks Up! to school children back home in Malaysia.
I think the fellowship helped me be able to see that girls can be leaders in Malaysia. Just reading Safiya Speaks Up! to a group of young children—I don’t think I could have ever imagined being able to read a book that I created with my best friends in these schools, and see the possibility of changing young children’s lives. Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined that. Doing these things makes me a young woman leader in my community, which is so rare to see.
I was never a leader growing up. I was always a kid who never really volunteered to do anything. I was never a hall monitor. And as a result, I feel like I was never chosen for stuff like that because I never raised my hand. I was really quiet as a kid in elementary school. And it’s such a 360 now from who I was back then, to who I am now, because I know how to lead. I’ve become a more self-assured, self-aware, and confident girl because of the programs. It’s wild to me that now I can use my voice for good and teach other young girls. I can be a good influence on my friends and be someone people can look up to and rely on as a fellow girl in their community.
If this fellowship has taught me anything, it’s that I want to go back to Malaysia and create programs like these for other young girls so they can learn how to lead in their own communities.
SHE’S THE FIRST:
Thank you so much for chatting with us today. We’re so proud to have you two as fellowship alums and our Girls Advisory Council members! Thank you for all you do for the girls in your communities and for She’s the First.
Sania and Allison rallied for girls’ rights with Nobel Prize Laureate Malala Yousafzai at the What Girls Want Campaign Rally outside the United Nations during the UN General Assembly.
Allison Choong is a Chinese-Malaysian born and raised on the sunny island of Penang, Malaysia. She is currently a second-year student at Drexel University, where she is pursuing a double major in Criminology & Justice Studies and Sociology on a fully funded Global Scholarship. Allison has been recognized as a finalist for the Canon Young Champion of the Year and Women of the Future Southeast Asia awards. An alumna of She’s the First’s Girl Activist Fellowship, she is also an active member of the organization’s Girls Advisory Council and will serve as a junior member of the Board of Directors in 2025. She is most passionate about the intersection of arts, education, and social justice to provide marginalized communities with a voice!
Sania Hammad is a sophomore at Barnard College of Columbia University where she serves on the student government as the president of the class of 2027. She plans to double major in Political Science and Human Rights. She is an alumnus of the She’s the First Girl Activist Fellowship where she coauthored Safiya Speaks Up! in addition to several blogs for the organization. In 2025, she will be joining the Girls Advisory Council. She also worked closely with the Malala Fund on the What Girls Want campaign, has been very active in her local community, and created a nonprofit aimed at helping the food insecure called Sate Crate.